Posts
Last week I was invited to the 2013 Turkey Consular Conference at the Ramada Resort Hotel. I had no idea what to expect but an announcement on Facebook telling us that all British consular offices in Turkey would be closed for staff training on 26th and 27th November suggested that this wasn't going to be a cosy local affair. It was in fact a meeting of consulate staff from all over Turkey with representatives from Athens, London, Malaga and Sharm El Sheikh also attending. I was one of three "outsiders" brought in to give our opinions on present consular services and comments on suggested strategies. Those of you who read this blog frequently, know that I'm at home rambling over an ancient site or stirring a bubbling pot in the kitchen - power-point presentations, flow charts, "mission statements" and "visions" have never been in my vocabulary but I have to admit I enjoyed the presentations and got stuck in with suggestions on how to improve the service. (If your consulate office has Skype available for client use - remember you read it here first).
What came across most strongly is that this particular group of individuals are all determined to provide the best service for UK nationals in Greece, Turkey and Egypt and that they are reliant on feed-back from us Brits overseas to learn how to best tailor their services to our needs, so if you have any reason to contact a consulate please let them know that you will be happy to answer questions on the experience if asked.
We all travel more confidently knowing that the British consular system is there should we lose a passport or have an accident but the question was inevitably raised as to whether UK nationals who choose to completely relocate to another country should be entitled to consular help in that country. I personally think not, except for emergency travel documents, but would be interested to hear your views.
. . disagree with your last bit, these vultures have extracted tax from my pension for the past 16 years I've lived in Turkey. I get nothing and ask nothing from them in the main - help if I need/want it is a small price for years of having tax/national insurance taken, I get no health cover in UK the least they can do is offer a grudging hand when needed.
ReplyDeleteI think people who have pay their national insurance for their whole working life and then move abroad have a very rough deal from the UK. I hope this will be remedied in the future. I'm still paying tax and NI in the UK and feel entitled to use the consular services when I'm in any other country than Turkey and UK but here I'm probably better placed to help myself than the consular staff.
DeleteB to B, I figure your consular services have GOT to be better than what U.S. citizens get. Back a year ago when we were trying to figure out whether or not we'd be required to sign up for Turkey's national health plan under a newly passed law, the consulate was way behind other countries in having a clue about the law and then was perhaps the last to negotiate an optional arrangement for U.S. citizens. (We ended up going with the SGK health insurance and we're glad of it.) So good for you if UK citizens get better services.
ReplyDeleteTalking to the consular staff on Wednesday, they seem to have just as hard a time getting a straight answer from the Turkish government than the rest of us. In a recent case where a previously covered couple had to take out a separate SGK cover for the wife when she reached UK retirement age, the staff still haven't managed to get the relevant authorities to make a statement that is understandable let alone fit for publication.
DeleteFrom my experience in Turkey, they provide an excellent service when travellers have got urgent and serious problems, such as road traffic accidents, death, lost/stolen passports, etc. They should be applauded for this.
ReplyDeleteWhere they are less effective is providing ongoing advice to British citizens living in Turkey. I would be the first to agree that some expats have unreasonable expectations, such as when they expect Consular officials to change Turkish laws they don't like. The best we can hope for is that the Consulate may be able to exert some influence on the drafting of laws, but any expat who thinks we can jolly well make the Turkish government do what we jolly well want, is frankly, bonkers.
However I think it is reasonable to expect Consular officials to have excellent, ongoing personal relations with senior officials in various Turkish Ministrys, so that they can very quickly contact them to resolve questions of interpretation of Turkish law. On so many occasions they are on the back foot. They should be more pro-active and try to anticipate major issues before they happen, rather than being reactive and scrabbling to catch up.
Some examples where real people have had very real problems are the introduction of SGK back in January 2012, and the recent change of interpretation on 90/180 day visas. Why are the Consular staff not on top of these issues, working to iron out any questions of interpretation before things get messy?
In my view it's not acceptable to say "Well, we asked the relevant Turkish department, but we don't have an answer". It's too easy a cop out. They are in the diplomacy game - they should use their diplomatic skills to get an answer. Isn't that their job?
Thank you very much for taking the tıme to comment. This is the sort of feedback that the consulate teams need.
DeleteGlad you got a chance to contribute. As for the question, I guess it depends on how 'permanency' is defined. I suspect few Brits (or any foreign national) give up their original passport even after they have taken up Turkish citizenship so in that sense they are entitled to consular help as and when they need it. Common sense must surely prevail otherwise millions of dual nationality migrants right across the globe could potentially clog up consular services. It's an interesting point about tax on British income. We had the reverse situation. When we came back to England, we kept the bulk of our savings in Turkey (to take advantage of the interest rate) and paid tax at source to the Turkish exchequer. We got (nor expected) anything from the Turkish state. It was sheer luck that we pulled our money out the day before the Gezi Park situation erupted and the lira plummeted.
ReplyDeleteHi Jack, If you have dual TK and UK citizenship in Turkey you are first and foremost a Turkish citizen in Turkey and the UK consulate can't step in to help during legal problems. I was mainly addressing my question to those who have not taken the nationality of the country they live in.
DeleteGlad you got your money out before the value dropped.
Must have been an interesting day for you and rather nice to have been asked, I think! I can't imagine needing the Consulate office services now I'm officially living in Spain but I do know people who live here who don't think like me and who always think of themselves as Brits 'abroad'...and entitled to whatever help they needed. Axxx
ReplyDeleteI was honoured to be asked and it was a very interesting day. I think we share an opinion on how much we need the consular service in our respective countries.
DeleteI can't comment on the expat situation from experience, but feel with Alan that those who have or do still contribute to the UK exchequer should be able to expect help if they really need it. As for your Skype suggestion - that's a great idea.
ReplyDeleteHave you ever needed them when you are in your house in France?
DeleteNot so far and I hope it continues that way. However I know of someone who really needed consular assistance when her husband went across recently to close up the house for the winter and died very suddenly during that short visit. Things do happen....
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like it was an interesting conference...
ReplyDeleteI do understand that there are limitations on what a Consulate can do, but I think it would help a lot if the website and Facebook could be updated more regularly. I was one of the people looking for updates when the GSS situation first arose, and now hoping for an update on this weird 'spouse having to pay own premium when in receipt of state pension' issue. And a lot of the material on the website is very, very old.
Just changing the date would give some assurance that the information is current and, when there are issues of concern and the Consulate have to wait for the local authorities to give a useful answer, weekly updates (saying a bit more than 'we are working on it' if possible) would be very reassuring.
Also more notice of community meetings would be very welcome.
These days I think we all expect to get the most up to date information online and it doesn't take a huge amount of effort to keep online resources up to date.
(hoping blogger doesn't lose the comment this time)
I agree with that Omentide. It looks bad when the forums have more up to date info that the official website.
DeleteI only ever used the consular services to register my children's births and get passport renewals; otherwise I use the French system - I've spent more of my working life in France than in Britain :-)
ReplyDeleteCan you still renew your passports in France? We have to send ours to Liverpool now.
DeleteMy last passport was replaced by the British Embassy in Paris - I'll check out their site to see if they still do it.
DeleteI don't think anyone who has settled here and relinquished ties to the UK should expect consular assistance. However, I do have an issue about the NHS. I do feel that my lifelong NI contributions should count for something, and that if I was visiting the UK I know I would receive emergency treatment, but if further treatment was deemed necessary, I believe it should be provided. Although I understand that this issue is being addressed and hopefully will change the situation in the not too distant future.
ReplyDeleteBrief residence in the UK entitles you to NHS treatment whereas a working lifetime paying tax and NI contributions doesn't. This seems unfair doesn't it.
ReplyDeleteYes it does seem unfair. I don't know why I'm so long-winded about getting my point across, when you can always manage it in once sentence! :-)
DeleteThis is pretty impressive that they set up this conference, and willing to help and get/receive feedback I applaud that, will pass it on, thanks for sharing.
ReplyDeleteI was impressed to.
DeleteDear Annie, I've never been what is called here an "ex-patriot." That is, I've never lived outside the United States. But I have known men and women who did so, usually though they were in the military. One friend whom I've known since he was 5 years old does live in Spain and has done so since his mid-twenties (he's in his 50s now). I think he'd opt with you about the consular service. All I know is that everyone choosing to live somewhere where the citizens speak a language different from theirs needs to learn that language and communicate in it. Here in the United States, the Hispanic population is growing and many people who have come here from Mexico or other Central American countries have not learned to speak English. That makes their communicating with clerks in stores and servers in restaurants and librarians, etc. difficult and I think they do themselves a disservice in not learning the language for language can encapsulate the soul of a country. Peace.
ReplyDeleteIn the UK, every official form is available in tens of languages and translators are found. It takes away the incentive to learn English which is a shame.
ReplyDelete